Traditions Of Men Against Relationship With God

Steven is contrasting two doctrinal lies embedded in the Baptist and Catholic denominations with the New Testament doctrine of relationship with God, which was opened up by Jesus Christ.

I have been in Romans. If you want to catch up and see what the Lord speaks to you, anywhere from Romans 4 to Romans 10, you will find different things. But I am just going to bring out some specifics. Traditions of men is the very thing that He is speaking to me this morning. [..] Anyway, going with those structures, I was pondering some things, I was thinking about these specific lies that have [been] embedded, even as far as the TM movement, but I was concentrating more on specific denominations.

I think we do have to be discerning what these things are, because we need to really discern how is that lie causing people in that denomination [to stop] from establishing that relationship with God that they are supposed to establish. As we were talking, it is just me and God has to be that key origin point of our relationship and our life. It has to always come back to “It’s me and God, and if I don’t have the answer, it’s got to come from God, and I have to do whatever that takes to get that thing.”

And I was looking at how these lies, at whatever depth, keep us from making that journey, because we all start at a place that we wonder even if God exists, really. Do we believe that God exists, do we believe that He has any part in our life, all those type [of] things. The one that I was looking at this morning, or two of them, one of them was the Baptist church, the thing once saved always saved.

What that really does, it takes you out of that whole process of walking with God. “So, I am OK,” there isn’t really a need to develop that relationship. There really isn’t a need. “I’m OK, He takes care of my sins, I am just saved [that] takes care of it, it’s done.” It all actually falls into that “loosy grace,” I am not sure what it is, lasciviousness [editor: inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd], – I have been trying to say that for some reason – , “because the grace covers it.” And we never let the fire of God deal with the issue, and sometimes those dealings just take some time. So we actually just push that away, and we just say: “the grace of God covers it, I am a sinner, I can’t help myself. ”

So, what does that do? It keeps me out of sonship, it keeps me out of that sonship/daughtership with God. And it keeps us actually back in the place of a sinner, which is really the old nature, which is really the flesh, as we read in Romans 6 Chapter, I am having to guess, because I am just remembering these things, because I am one of those that get it in the head versus reading it.

So, the other thing is, what really keeps the Holy Spirit from moving in the Catholic, or Baptist Church is, [that] the baptism of the Holy Spirit – if you are in the seminary – you cannot allow {that} in your meetings, which is actually holding the whole Holy Spirit out. “We all have a piece of the Holy Spirit, and that is enough, we are all OK.”

But we have experienced how powerfully God moves in those things, and we have watched how, in fullness, those things always prove out to be God. We don’t just say “well, that little emotionalism is God,” and we don’t put a discernment on it. We discern those things through. I am reiterating, but I know somebody might hear this, reiterating now further, so that they may search deeper. And so, as you allow those things to come forth, what it’s really doing is holding back the power of the Holy Spirit, because we always know we have to open that door of the baptism of the Holy Spirit to really experience the power of the Holy Spirit.

Because it is just even like in relationship. You can be in that place where you hear God by seeing the things on the outside, like we have seen things in the sky, we have seen some pretty neat things like that. Or we see something on the outside like, Lonnie, in you case. We say “Lonnie was healed by God,” and we accept that. But it isn’t a personal thing, I am just pulling off of your testimony, because I don’t have that relationship.

And so even in the Old Testament, they had God on the outside, and “I see these things.” But Jesus made it so that Christ could abide in us, and the Father could abide in us, and that’s the difference, and that’s the thing that we need to be grabbing hold of, because God has written those things in our heart, as it said in Joel, that those things would happen.

So, if we are not grabbing hold of that, we are not actually stepping into the Age of Grace, which already has been going for two thousand years, by the time we catch up with His plan. But so many of our churches haven’t even caught up to two thousand years ago. Those things were two thousand years ago. And I am finding it very interesting – there is nothing scriptural about this, you will have to search it out for yourselves – that the Church was moving so powerfully for the first four hundred years, and then there was that season of a thousand years, and also look at Revelations, the devil was allowed to move about the people for a thousand years. And then I see in the 1500s, things are coming to be restored. And I always thought it is interesting how all that seems to line up so well, if you look at it that way. So, I am just throwing that out there. [..]

So, I am going back to my personal experience, and this is more in the Catholic arena, because this is where I grew up. In the Catholic arena, they believe, or at least the structure dictates, maybe I put it that way, that you go to a priest, he absolves your sins, and they also believe in the original sin, and you have to, I can’t remember how they say you cleanse it, that may be the baptism they use, they have some way of mixing that together, that’s how you get rid of original sin. But, I always thought it interesting, they don’t even realize that full liberty of knowing when your heart is changed and there is a repentant heart inside, you are instantly in that freedom.

Now, I would say, that is probably the opposite side of the Baptists who think they are already [forgiven] even though they haven’t made a heart change. But if you are walking in the true, which is between the two boundaries, God’s structure versus the two man-made structures, we always know what the experience of that freedom is. It is actually a tangible feeling. I don’t know about you, but there have been a few things that have taken me a day of two to let go of, when I know that there has been that conviction there.

And I also know the difference {of} [between] just knowing it, agreeing with it, and just being right in line. I definitely know those feelings and those are the things that make me know that I am on the right track, because I know when that heart alignment happens with God. And I know at that specific moment, I know the freedom always goes with it. And that’s a feeling, an experience I should say, that you don’t have if you accept those lies that are embedded in those denominations. Those are just some examples of the structural things we are talking about.

Audio Recording of Discussion



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